Comments on: Nichols and Dime: Does Defense Get Better With Age? http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/11/25/nichols-and-dime-does-defense-get-better-with-age/ Unbiased opinions from extremely biased people Wed, 23 May 2012 04:55:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Robert C http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/11/25/nichols-and-dime-does-defense-get-better-with-age/comment-page-1/#comment-30740 Robert C Mon, 30 Nov 2009 16:58:37 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4285#comment-30740 I agree with Nick. This measurement needs to be horizontal, not vertical. My first thought would be to take all the players available at the end of the data set, and simply track those persistent players over their careers, and see if there is an improvement. That would eliminate the depression in the first few years as ineffective players washed out of the league. It may not be fair to track only the players who still played at 36. Maybe instead only include players who have a 10 year career. Also, it would be interesting to track the players not based on age, but on how many years they have been in the league. I agree with Nick. This measurement needs to be horizontal, not vertical. My first thought would be to take all the players available at the end of the data set, and simply track those persistent players over their careers, and see if there is an improvement. That would eliminate the depression in the first few years as ineffective players washed out of the league.

It may not be fair to track only the players who still played at 36. Maybe instead only include players who have a 10 year career. Also, it would be interesting to track the players not based on age, but on how many years they have been in the league.

]]> By: Nick Reder http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/11/25/nichols-and-dime-does-defense-get-better-with-age/comment-page-1/#comment-30094 Nick Reder Fri, 27 Nov 2009 05:05:44 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4285#comment-30094 It might be nice to see an analysis on an individual level, i.e. does player A's defense get better with age. Then you could aggregate the results. Using this method should allow you to control for bad defenders being weeded out of the NBA at an early age. It might be nice to see an analysis on an individual level, i.e. does player A’s defense get better with age. Then you could aggregate the results. Using this method should allow you to control for bad defenders being weeded out of the NBA at an early age.

]]> By: brennan http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/11/25/nichols-and-dime-does-defense-get-better-with-age/comment-page-1/#comment-29990 brennan Thu, 26 Nov 2009 16:16:19 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4285#comment-29990 a good attempt - but defence is impossible to measure quantitatively...which is no fault of yours. unless they start tracking completely subjective items such as - "great vs average vs bad": close-outs help/rotation communication intimidation shot challenges box outs loose ball hustle a good attempt – but defence is impossible to measure quantitatively…which is no fault of yours.
unless they start tracking completely subjective items such as – “great vs average vs bad”:
close-outs
help/rotation
communication
intimidation
shot challenges
box outs
loose ball hustle

]]> By: The 10-man rotation, starring another Thunder Twitvid | Sports News Images and Videos http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/11/25/nichols-and-dime-does-defense-get-better-with-age/comment-page-1/#comment-29961 The 10-man rotation, starring another Thunder Twitvid | Sports News Images and Videos Thu, 26 Nov 2009 12:21:40 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4285#comment-29961 [...] Marcus Thornton(notes) needs to start when CP3 returns for one reason only: Collison.10th: Hardwood Paroxysm. Do NBA defenders get better with [...] [...] Marcus Thornton(notes) needs to start when CP3 returns for one reason only: Collison.10th: Hardwood Paroxysm. Do NBA defenders get better with [...]

]]> By: Cs http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/11/25/nichols-and-dime-does-defense-get-better-with-age/comment-page-1/#comment-29901 Cs Thu, 26 Nov 2009 03:35:00 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4285#comment-29901 This seemed pointless, interesting and pointless. Which is odd I suppose This seemed pointless, interesting and pointless. Which is odd I suppose

]]> By: Latin_D http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/11/25/nichols-and-dime-does-defense-get-better-with-age/comment-page-1/#comment-29889 Latin_D Thu, 26 Nov 2009 02:08:04 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4285#comment-29889 I absolutely loved this. I absolutely loved this.

]]> By: Garron http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/11/25/nichols-and-dime-does-defense-get-better-with-age/comment-page-1/#comment-29878 Garron Thu, 26 Nov 2009 00:35:21 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4285#comment-29878 Great work. I can't find the stats (I know Wayne Winston has them and won't share them with me although he has posted some in his books), and you may be able to get them from basketball reference if you asked nicely, but I was wondering if you could use adjusted minus for defensive ratings. Wayne Winston has it in his book, where the Mavs stats team both adjusted +/- and seperated them into simply adjusted plus and adjusted minus. If you use just minus, I think it may be a better use than just defensive rating, and see if the correlation is similar (I'm guessing it is). Great work. I can’t find the stats (I know Wayne Winston has them and won’t share them with me although he has posted some in his books), and you may be able to get them from basketball reference if you asked nicely, but I was wondering if you could use adjusted minus for defensive ratings.

Wayne Winston has it in his book, where the Mavs stats team both adjusted +/- and seperated them into simply adjusted plus and adjusted minus. If you use just minus, I think it may be a better use than just defensive rating, and see if the correlation is similar (I’m guessing it is).

]]> By: lu http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/11/25/nichols-and-dime-does-defense-get-better-with-age/comment-page-1/#comment-29862 lu Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:46:22 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4285#comment-29862 the strangest result of these graphs is that there is a distinct valley for all positions at age 34. it seems strange that 34 would be the age at which players have a defensive revelation, although it might be related to the fact that older players can only get on the court if they play good defense. the strangest result of these graphs is that there is a distinct valley for all positions at age 34. it seems strange that 34 would be the age at which players have a defensive revelation, although it might be related to the fact that older players can only get on the court if they play good defense.

]]> By: David J http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/11/25/nichols-and-dime-does-defense-get-better-with-age/comment-page-1/#comment-29856 David J Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:27:01 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4285#comment-29856 Methinks you may be missing the boat on this one, but cannot clearly tell from your writeup. The problem I see is that you appear to lump all players by age. However, a player that cannot compete at the NBA level will be gone within 2-5 years, while the higher-ability players stick around the league longer. Couple longetivity-based-on-ability with the fact that older players get more calls than younger ones (I'm from MN - take a look at footage of KG early years vs now for a clear indicator of veteran calls), and you have clear reasons why these factors should indicate that older is better. Methinks you may be missing the boat on this one, but cannot clearly tell from your writeup. The problem I see is that you appear to lump all players by age. However, a player that cannot compete at the NBA level will be gone within 2-5 years, while the higher-ability players stick around the league longer.

Couple longetivity-based-on-ability with the fact that older players get more calls than younger ones (I’m from MN – take a look at footage of KG early years vs now for a clear indicator of veteran calls), and you have clear reasons why these factors should indicate that older is better.

]]> By: Jared Wade http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/11/25/nichols-and-dime-does-defense-get-better-with-age/comment-page-1/#comment-29852 Jared Wade Wed, 25 Nov 2009 21:59:05 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4285#comment-29852 Are you saying Derek Fisher isn't a defensive stopper anymore? Are you saying Derek Fisher isn’t a defensive stopper anymore?

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