Comments on: When The Idol Becomes Fodder: The Tyrus Thomas Trade Discussion http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/12/04/when-the-idol-becomes-fodder-the-tyrus-thomas-trade-discussion/ Unbiased opinions from extremely biased people Wed, 23 May 2012 04:55:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Pharaoh http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/12/04/when-the-idol-becomes-fodder-the-tyrus-thomas-trade-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-31664 Pharaoh Sun, 06 Dec 2009 09:10:25 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4522#comment-31664 The Bulls have had more than ample opportunities to develop talent over the course of the last 5 years. However, the Bulls continue to prove they don't know how to cultivate raw talent, sift through it, fine tune it and formulate a group that consistently contends year in - year out. Tyrus basically is just the next in a long chain of players who come here and can't maximize his talent or reach his ceiling. As for the 2010 talk...my theory is the Bulls are falling into the trap of overevaluating the situation. Accountability is the key word. You look at every team that is in realistic contention in the league, and you'll see a team that is over the cap, and taking a luxary tax hit. Period. Superstar talent costs. I believe that one was realized here a long time ago during the last few years of MJ - only after years of him being underpayed relative to his status as best player in the game. Sadly, I get the feeling there is no interest or genuine vibe of "recreating the dynasty" taking place upstairs. What we need is an overall raise of the bar to better development of the tools we have AND a superstar signing. It is beyond me why we have Aaron Gray on this roster and the management doesn't have their foot in his ass to lose weight and become a NBA conditioned, professional athlete. Not saying he'd be a star, but just imagine if he went into the offseason with the mindset that Joakim took. This overall lack of genuine authority and desire to win from the top down, will be why the Bulls won't be able to sign a Wade, Bosh, etc. No star wants to inherit a garbage situation, I don't care how large the market. We'll be looking at B-level, second tier talent in 2010. The Bulls have had more than ample opportunities to develop talent over the course of the last 5 years. However, the Bulls continue to prove they don’t know how to cultivate raw talent, sift through it, fine tune it and formulate a group that consistently contends year in – year out.

Tyrus basically is just the next in a long chain of players who come here and can’t maximize his talent or reach his ceiling.

As for the 2010 talk…my theory is the Bulls are falling into the trap of overevaluating the situation. Accountability is the key word. You look at every team that is in realistic contention in the league, and you’ll see a team that is over the cap, and taking a luxary tax hit. Period. Superstar talent costs. I believe that one was realized here a long time ago during the last few years of MJ – only after years of him being underpayed relative to his status as best player in the game.

Sadly, I get the feeling there is no interest or genuine vibe of “recreating the dynasty” taking place upstairs. What we need is an overall raise of the bar to better development of the tools we have AND a superstar signing.

It is beyond me why we have Aaron Gray on this roster and the management doesn’t have their foot in his ass to lose weight and become a NBA conditioned, professional athlete. Not saying he’d be a star, but just imagine if he went into the offseason with the mindset that Joakim took. This overall lack of genuine authority and desire to win from the top down, will be why the Bulls won’t be able to sign a Wade, Bosh, etc. No star wants to inherit a garbage situation, I don’t care how large the market. We’ll be looking at B-level, second tier talent in 2010.

]]> By: Calogero http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/12/04/when-the-idol-becomes-fodder-the-tyrus-thomas-trade-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-31561 Calogero Sat, 05 Dec 2009 20:19:48 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4522#comment-31561 i'll agree with you that if the bulls land a wade, bosh, lebron, or amare in the offseason then we bulls fans lose all right to complain. however, we're skeptical because contrary to common belief, we do not "have as much money [available in cap space this summer] as anyone." the cap is expected to go down next year, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 53 million. IF we renounce tyrus (or trade him for an expiring, as suggested here) AND salmons opts out, then we will have 31.8 million committed to the 2010-11 season to 6 players (noah, rose, deng, hinrich, gibson, james johnson). when you factor in a first round pick this year and the requisite number of "ghost player" cap holds required to fill out the roster, we're looking at having about 36 million tied up, giving us somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 million in cap space (again, depending on how far the cap goes down; we could have more or less space). and, as stated earlier, having that much space is dependent upon salmons opting out, and with how much he has struggled this year that seems like far from a certainty. so it is still not even certain that we'd be able to even offer a max contract, whether salmons opts out or not. a lot of the negativity of this nebulous 2010 "plan" is that there doesn't seem to be any plan at all; if we were truly going for 2010, wouldnt we look to move hinrich for expiring contracts to ensure cap space? same thing with salmons? now, management could be doing that, we don't know, but all signs in the past have been that they're reluctant to move hinrich period. instead, it seems that management (more particularly, ownership) is content to be a decent team in the east that stays under the luxury tax, makes the playoffs, puts up a fight in the first round, and reinsdorf counts the profits. i’ll agree with you that if the bulls land a wade, bosh, lebron, or amare in the offseason then we bulls fans lose all right to complain. however, we’re skeptical because contrary to common belief, we do not “have as much money [available in cap space this summer] as anyone.” the cap is expected to go down next year, probably somewhere in the neighborhood of 53 million. IF we renounce tyrus (or trade him for an expiring, as suggested here) AND salmons opts out, then we will have 31.8 million committed to the 2010-11 season to 6 players (noah, rose, deng, hinrich, gibson, james johnson). when you factor in a first round pick this year and the requisite number of “ghost player” cap holds required to fill out the roster, we’re looking at having about 36 million tied up, giving us somewhere in the neighborhood of 17 million in cap space (again, depending on how far the cap goes down; we could have more or less space). and, as stated earlier, having that much space is dependent upon salmons opting out, and with how much he has struggled this year that seems like far from a certainty. so it is still not even certain that we’d be able to even offer a max contract, whether salmons opts out or not.

a lot of the negativity of this nebulous 2010 “plan” is that there doesn’t seem to be any plan at all; if we were truly going for 2010, wouldnt we look to move hinrich for expiring contracts to ensure cap space? same thing with salmons? now, management could be doing that, we don’t know, but all signs in the past have been that they’re reluctant to move hinrich period. instead, it seems that management (more particularly, ownership) is content to be a decent team in the east that stays under the luxury tax, makes the playoffs, puts up a fight in the first round, and reinsdorf counts the profits.

]]> By: Matt Moore http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/12/04/when-the-idol-becomes-fodder-the-tyrus-thomas-trade-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-31394 Matt Moore Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:21:08 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4522#comment-31394 But they'll still have a tremendous core and the ability to sign a major free agent? I mean, isn't all this negativity completely erased if they land any of the top five free agents this summer? They have as much money as anyone and a HUGE market! Who gives a shit if you didn't develop Tyrus Thomas right if you land Dwyane Wade? Plus in the meantime, Harrington could land you the sixth seed. You're not winning the championship, you can't reasonably expect to win a championship, so build on last year! Get a higher seed, maybe make it out of the first round, and then go out and sign a major player. There are SO many worse teams than Chicago right now, both in terms of play and future! Why are you complaining?! But they’ll still have a tremendous core and the ability to sign a major free agent? I mean, isn’t all this negativity completely erased if they land any of the top five free agents this summer? They have as much money as anyone and a HUGE market! Who gives a shit if you didn’t develop Tyrus Thomas right if you land Dwyane Wade? Plus in the meantime, Harrington could land you the sixth seed. You’re not winning the championship, you can’t reasonably expect to win a championship, so build on last year! Get a higher seed, maybe make it out of the first round, and then go out and sign a major player.

There are SO many worse teams than Chicago right now, both in terms of play and future! Why are you complaining?!

]]> By: Matt Moore http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/12/04/when-the-idol-becomes-fodder-the-tyrus-thomas-trade-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-31391 Matt Moore Fri, 04 Dec 2009 22:15:54 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4522#comment-31391 Seriously, what did Taj Gibson do to Bulls fans? Did he punch a child or something? /Big Baby'd Seriously, what did Taj Gibson do to Bulls fans? Did he punch a child or something?

/Big Baby’d

]]> By: Blog-a-Bull Poster http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/12/04/when-the-idol-becomes-fodder-the-tyrus-thomas-trade-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-31389 Blog-a-Bull Poster Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:50:27 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4522#comment-31389 Wow... Your whole point about the larger contract is dumb, because the bulls could just renounce Tyrus at the end of the season and get the same cap space - so I don't even know why you bothered typing that. The anger is that Bulls have once again failed to develop a young player and will trade him for a 29 year old Harrington. A Harrington the Bulls don't intend to resign. That means, for the #2 pick in the draft, the Bulls got cap space. For the #3 pick in the draft (Gordon) they got future cap space. Ten years of bad draft picks and missed potential. But hey - the Bulls have a chance to get Harrington for 3/4's of a season. If they do so, there 1st round exit will be assured! Your optimism isn't misplaced at all. Wow… Your whole point about the larger contract is dumb, because the bulls could just renounce Tyrus at the end of the season and get the same cap space – so I don’t even know why you bothered typing that.

The anger is that Bulls have once again failed to develop a young player and will trade him for a 29 year old Harrington. A Harrington the Bulls don’t intend to resign. That means, for the #2 pick in the draft, the Bulls got cap space. For the #3 pick in the draft (Gordon) they got future cap space. Ten years of bad draft picks and missed potential. But hey – the Bulls have a chance to get Harrington for 3/4′s of a season. If they do so, there 1st round exit will be assured! Your optimism isn’t misplaced at all.

]]> By: dickey simpkins http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/12/04/when-the-idol-becomes-fodder-the-tyrus-thomas-trade-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-31385 dickey simpkins Fri, 04 Dec 2009 21:30:57 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4522#comment-31385 The trade is good in the notion that Tyrus really had no future with the team after this season, so it's nice to get something in return for him. But, I doubt any Bulls fan should actually be excited about this trade. Who cares about a move that increases the ceiling from 40 to 44 wins? In the long run, this is just another nail in the coffin for Bulls management's inability to develop high risk/high reward draft picks. And this trade basically tells a fanbase "Taj Gibson>Tyrus Thomas" There are those dumb enough to actually believe that, but it's a pretty pathetic philosophy. The trade is good in the notion that Tyrus really had no future with the team after this season, so it’s nice to get something in return for him. But, I doubt any Bulls fan should actually be excited about this trade. Who cares about a move that increases the ceiling from 40 to 44 wins? In the long run, this is just another nail in the coffin for Bulls management’s inability to develop high risk/high reward draft picks.

And this trade basically tells a fanbase “Taj Gibson>Tyrus Thomas” There are those dumb enough to actually believe that, but it’s a pretty pathetic philosophy.

]]> By: Matt McHale http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/12/04/when-the-idol-becomes-fodder-the-tyrus-thomas-trade-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-31345 Matt McHale Fri, 04 Dec 2009 16:49:47 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4522#comment-31345 Yup, I would support the trade. Fully. With only minor hesitation. But it's hard to get too excited about speculation until it's closer to happening. Right now, I get that "all sizzle and limited substance." If for no other reason than trades I want to happen never happen. Yup, I would support the trade. Fully. With only minor hesitation. But it’s hard to get too excited about speculation until it’s closer to happening. Right now, I get that “all sizzle and limited substance.” If for no other reason than trades I want to happen never happen.

]]> By: Vic De Zen http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2009/12/04/when-the-idol-becomes-fodder-the-tyrus-thomas-trade-discussion/comment-page-1/#comment-31341 Vic De Zen Fri, 04 Dec 2009 16:35:03 +0000 http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=4522#comment-31341 You make a ton of good points. I still like this for the Knicks if it happens, though. Strip all the context away and you're trading a guy who's peaked for someone who isn't even close to peaking. For NYK, I think that's what you want. You make a ton of good points. I still like this for the Knicks if it happens, though. Strip all the context away and you’re trading a guy who’s peaked for someone who isn’t even close to peaking. For NYK, I think that’s what you want.

]]>