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	<title>Comments on: The Harris-Wall Conundrum: NBA Trade Mechanics Through A Formulaic Approach</title>
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	<link>http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/01/22/the-harris-wall-conundrum-nba-trade-mechanics-through-a-formulaic-approach/</link>
	<description>Unbiased opinions from extremely biased people</description>
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		<title>By: &#187; NBA&#8217;s got Game &#187; Cornell Info 2040 - Networks</title>
		<link>http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/01/22/the-harris-wall-conundrum-nba-trade-mechanics-through-a-formulaic-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-42102</link>
		<dc:creator>&#187; NBA&#8217;s got Game &#187; Cornell Info 2040 - Networks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Feb 2010 04:42:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=5424#comment-42102</guid>
		<description>[...] by the article, &#8220;The Harris-Wall Conundrum: NBA Trade Mechanics Through A Formulaic [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] by the article, &#8220;The Harris-Wall Conundrum: NBA Trade Mechanics Through A Formulaic [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/01/22/the-harris-wall-conundrum-nba-trade-mechanics-through-a-formulaic-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-38990</link>
		<dc:creator>Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Jan 2010 19:42:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=5424#comment-38990</guid>
		<description>Fantastic breakdown of the dilemma the Nets are in right now; however, this omits one crucial factor.  The fiscal assets (expiring contracts) gained by trading Harris would be enough to accommodate two max contracts.  Say LeBron James and Chris Bosh want to team up.  Trading established talent in Harris would open the door for signing established talent in Bosh.  Regardless of which way the draft lottery goes, a team with Brook Lopez and two max contracts available would sound more appealing to a free agent than Lopez, Harris, and just one max contract available.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fantastic breakdown of the dilemma the Nets are in right now; however, this omits one crucial factor.  The fiscal assets (expiring contracts) gained by trading Harris would be enough to accommodate two max contracts.  Say LeBron James and Chris Bosh want to team up.  Trading established talent in Harris would open the door for signing established talent in Bosh.  Regardless of which way the draft lottery goes, a team with Brook Lopez and two max contracts available would sound more appealing to a free agent than Lopez, Harris, and just one max contract available.</p>
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		<title>By: Neville Tivendale</title>
		<link>http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/01/22/the-harris-wall-conundrum-nba-trade-mechanics-through-a-formulaic-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-38613</link>
		<dc:creator>Neville Tivendale</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 23:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=5424#comment-38613</guid>
		<description>The Nets have the Dallas 1st round pick this year from the Kidd-Harris trade.

While getting the #1 pick is a happy predicament for the Nets, there is a bigger &quot;what if&quot; to ponder if the balls fall differently.

Minnesota have two points guards, one a top 10 pick, plus the rights to another highly regarded PG in Ricky Rubio.  They could not possibly pass on Wall, even for the highly talented (and better fit) Evan Turner.

So how would that equation look?  And factor in David Kahn to boot!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Nets have the Dallas 1st round pick this year from the Kidd-Harris trade.</p>
<p>While getting the #1 pick is a happy predicament for the Nets, there is a bigger &#8220;what if&#8221; to ponder if the balls fall differently.</p>
<p>Minnesota have two points guards, one a top 10 pick, plus the rights to another highly regarded PG in Ricky Rubio.  They could not possibly pass on Wall, even for the highly talented (and better fit) Evan Turner.</p>
<p>So how would that equation look?  And factor in David Kahn to boot!</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Tung</title>
		<link>http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/01/22/the-harris-wall-conundrum-nba-trade-mechanics-through-a-formulaic-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-38490</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Tung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=5424#comment-38490</guid>
		<description>By the way, Matt, a couple of things:

1.  The upper-right-hand corner should read F+W-H, not W-H.

2.  The 25.5 percent in Hollinger&#039;s figures seems to imply that the Nets have another (largely unprotected) first-round pick from some team currently on the playoff bubble.  Is that so?  Or is that just Hollinger&#039;s bells and whistles running amok?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, Matt, a couple of things:</p>
<p>1.  The upper-right-hand corner should read F+W-H, not W-H.</p>
<p>2.  The 25.5 percent in Hollinger&#8217;s figures seems to imply that the Nets have another (largely unprotected) first-round pick from some team currently on the playoff bubble.  Is that so?  Or is that just Hollinger&#8217;s bells and whistles running amok?</p>
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		<title>By: Brian Tung</title>
		<link>http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/01/22/the-harris-wall-conundrum-nba-trade-mechanics-through-a-formulaic-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-38487</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian Tung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Jan 2010 00:39:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=5424#comment-38487</guid>
		<description>@David: In that case, the lower-right-hand corner in the diagram has Wall&#039;s fiscal value (call it f), rather than the basketball asset difference (H,W)-H.  In which case the comparison becomes

F+W/4-H  vs  f/4

This is certainly a viable option, and it sort of highlights one of the weaknesses of this kind of analysis, and that is that we really don&#039;t know how good Wall is going to be (what W is).  It might be that one of the values of going this route is to minimize risk through Wall arbitrage.

That being said, I&#039;m not confident that the Nets could get &quot;major veteran talent&quot; for a fresh-out.  &quot;Veteran talent&quot; alone already entails some ability; otherwise, they&#039;d likely have been drummed out of the league already.  (Yes, I know there are some perplexing exceptions, but let&#039;s assume, crazily enough, that the Nets wouldn&#039;t go after such folks.)  Not to mention making the salaries work, although I&#039;d be the first to admit I&#039;m no CBA expert.  That&#039;s what folks like Larry Coon are for.

@Justin: On the off chance you&#039;re serious (and speaking as a non-Nets fan, non-Mavs fan), I think being Harris&#039;s downturn is temporary and/or situational.  He&#039;s a point guard, and is going to suffer disproportionately from being surrounded by inferior talent.  He&#039;s 26 (going on 27), it&#039;s not as though he could reasonably be expected to wear out soon.  This is one of the reasons, incidentally, why in the arena of &quot;holistic&quot; statistics (like adjusted plus/minus), I&#039;d prefer a functional approach to a value-based approach (again, like adjusted plus/minus).  Of course, this is just me speaking ex recto: Any such approach would take a long time to develop properly.

If you weren&#039;t serious...that was kind of funny.  Like, hurts when I laugh kind of funny.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@David: In that case, the lower-right-hand corner in the diagram has Wall&#8217;s fiscal value (call it f), rather than the basketball asset difference (H,W)-H.  In which case the comparison becomes</p>
<p>F+W/4-H  vs  f/4</p>
<p>This is certainly a viable option, and it sort of highlights one of the weaknesses of this kind of analysis, and that is that we really don&#8217;t know how good Wall is going to be (what W is).  It might be that one of the values of going this route is to minimize risk through Wall arbitrage.</p>
<p>That being said, I&#8217;m not confident that the Nets could get &#8220;major veteran talent&#8221; for a fresh-out.  &#8220;Veteran talent&#8221; alone already entails some ability; otherwise, they&#8217;d likely have been drummed out of the league already.  (Yes, I know there are some perplexing exceptions, but let&#8217;s assume, crazily enough, that the Nets wouldn&#8217;t go after such folks.)  Not to mention making the salaries work, although I&#8217;d be the first to admit I&#8217;m no CBA expert.  That&#8217;s what folks like Larry Coon are for.</p>
<p>@Justin: On the off chance you&#8217;re serious (and speaking as a non-Nets fan, non-Mavs fan), I think being Harris&#8217;s downturn is temporary and/or situational.  He&#8217;s a point guard, and is going to suffer disproportionately from being surrounded by inferior talent.  He&#8217;s 26 (going on 27), it&#8217;s not as though he could reasonably be expected to wear out soon.  This is one of the reasons, incidentally, why in the arena of &#8220;holistic&#8221; statistics (like adjusted plus/minus), I&#8217;d prefer a functional approach to a value-based approach (again, like adjusted plus/minus).  Of course, this is just me speaking ex recto: Any such approach would take a long time to develop properly.</p>
<p>If you weren&#8217;t serious&#8230;that was kind of funny.  Like, hurts when I laugh kind of funny.</p>
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		<title>By: Bluejohn</title>
		<link>http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/01/22/the-harris-wall-conundrum-nba-trade-mechanics-through-a-formulaic-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-38480</link>
		<dc:creator>Bluejohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 23:43:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=5424#comment-38480</guid>
		<description>Frankly, you lost me at F, but I love the idea that you and Brian Tung and Henry Abbott sit around talking about things like this. Great piece in an always fascinating site.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Frankly, you lost me at F, but I love the idea that you and Brian Tung and Henry Abbott sit around talking about things like this. Great piece in an always fascinating site.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin</title>
		<link>http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/01/22/the-harris-wall-conundrum-nba-trade-mechanics-through-a-formulaic-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-38455</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 20:37:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=5424#comment-38455</guid>
		<description>Your argument is premised on Devin Harris actually being an asset on the court.  That is a very faulty assumption</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your argument is premised on Devin Harris actually being an asset on the court.  That is a very faulty assumption</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/01/22/the-harris-wall-conundrum-nba-trade-mechanics-through-a-formulaic-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-38454</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 20:33:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=5424#comment-38454</guid>
		<description>There&#039;s another option unexplored in this otherwise thorough and excellent post. What if the Nets keep Harris, and land Wall, and then decide to shop not Harris, but Wall? While Harris has certainly come down to earth, he is undoubtedly a great talent. What&#039;s more, he is a KNOWN talent, while Wall remains an unknown. Wall&#039;s primary value resides in his image - as a young star, he represents an instant image makeover for a team lagging in popularity. The Pacers, say, or the Wizards would be desperate to get their hands on Wall. 

The Nets could therefore pull a Celtics-style manouever. Reward Harris for his time spent on a tanking team by keeping him, trade Wall for some major veteran talent, and use their new glittering roster to pull one of the much vaunted summer free agent class - putting them instantly into Eastern contention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s another option unexplored in this otherwise thorough and excellent post. What if the Nets keep Harris, and land Wall, and then decide to shop not Harris, but Wall? While Harris has certainly come down to earth, he is undoubtedly a great talent. What&#8217;s more, he is a KNOWN talent, while Wall remains an unknown. Wall&#8217;s primary value resides in his image &#8211; as a young star, he represents an instant image makeover for a team lagging in popularity. The Pacers, say, or the Wizards would be desperate to get their hands on Wall. </p>
<p>The Nets could therefore pull a Celtics-style manouever. Reward Harris for his time spent on a tanking team by keeping him, trade Wall for some major veteran talent, and use their new glittering roster to pull one of the much vaunted summer free agent class &#8211; putting them instantly into Eastern contention.</p>
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		<title>By: NetsAreScorching &#8211; New Jersey Nets Blog &#8211; Nets News, Rumors, Analysis, Podcasts, Salaries, &#38; Statistics &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Nets on the Net: 1/22/10 Edition</title>
		<link>http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/2010/01/22/the-harris-wall-conundrum-nba-trade-mechanics-through-a-formulaic-approach/comment-page-1/#comment-38393</link>
		<dc:creator>NetsAreScorching &#8211; New Jersey Nets Blog &#8211; Nets News, Rumors, Analysis, Podcasts, Salaries, &#38; Statistics &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Nets on the Net: 1/22/10 Edition</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Jan 2010 11:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.hardwoodparoxysm.com/?p=5424#comment-38393</guid>
		<description>[...] fantastic and thorough look by Matt Moore of Hardwood Paroxysm at the potential conundrum the Nets have on their hands if they trade Devin Harris, but fail to get [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] fantastic and thorough look by Matt Moore of Hardwood Paroxysm at the potential conundrum the Nets have on their hands if they trade Devin Harris, but fail to get [...]</p>
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